Difference between revisions of "Episode:Experiential Deity—The Supreme Being (Part 4)"

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*** Can you read Papers 1-5 and accept they are not talking about existing ideas of God (only the same ideals)?
 
*** Can you read Papers 1-5 and accept they are not talking about existing ideas of God (only the same ideals)?
 
** Can you understand that just because humans have said "God the Supreme" before, in no way does it mean The Urantia Book is talking about those traditional ideas?
 
** Can you understand that just because humans have said "God the Supreme" before, in no way does it mean The Urantia Book is talking about those traditional ideas?
** Can you rethink everything and genuinely get out of your [[old wineskins]]?
 
 
** Can you let '''no assumption go unchallenged?'''
 
** Can you let '''no assumption go unchallenged?'''
 
** Can you do better than resting on the laurels of "I've read the entire 2097 pages of this text?"
 
** Can you do better than resting on the laurels of "I've read the entire 2097 pages of this text?"
** Are you curious?  Can you [[let go]] and start from scratch: "the ideal of the infinite and eternal nature of God?"
+
** Are you curious?  Can you [[let go]]?
** If so, perhaps The Urantia Book is for you.  But it's not required if you're already satisfied.
+
*** Can you start from scratch with just one ideal: "the ideal of the infinite and eternal nature of God?"
*** If you believe the Bible is 100% factually correct, The Urantia Book is not for you (it reveals truth, but it is not factually accurate)
+
*** Can you genuinely strive to get out of your [[old wineskins]]?
 +
** If so, perhaps The Urantia Book is for you.  But it's not required if you're [[be content, not satisfied|already satisfied]].
 +
*** If you believe the Bible is 100% factually correct, The Urantia Book is not for you (the Bible reveals truth, but it is not factually accurate)
 
** To be a serious student of it, you must [[stay hungry and thirsty, my friends]].
 
** To be a serious student of it, you must [[stay hungry and thirsty, my friends]].
 
** But beware.  Launching out from the sheltered bays of doctrine, absolutist dogma, a priesthood... you can go astray.
 
** But beware.  Launching out from the sheltered bays of doctrine, absolutist dogma, a priesthood... you can go astray.
 
*** Loosening of boundaries can get one into weird areas.  Asking "questions that shouldn't be asked" can lead you astray.
 
*** Loosening of boundaries can get one into weird areas.  Asking "questions that shouldn't be asked" can lead you astray.
*** Perhaps you are okay with [[Four phases of religious philosophy|leaving well enough alone]]?
+
*** Perhaps you'd rather just [[Four phases of religious philosophy|leave well enough alone]]?
  
  
* [[Intensive versus extensive]].  It's not a false dichotomy
+
* [[Intensive versus extensive]]
** Cosmos suggests both.
+
** Consider ''cosmos'', which suggests both  
*** Extensively it's a word denoting universe
+
*** Extensively it's a word denoting universe; intensively it's a word denoting harmony
*** Intensively it's a word denoting harmony
 
*** But it isn't one or the other.  The Greeks figured this out long ago: the two are together as one.  It's not either/or.
 
 
*** Extensively it's the harmonizing universe.  Intensively it's the universal harmony.
 
*** Extensively it's the harmonizing universe.  Intensively it's the universal harmony.
** The Supreme suggests both, through its facets of Deity relevant to the finite domain:
+
*** It isn't one or the other.  The two are together as one.  greeks figured this out over 2000 years ago.
*** The Almighty is tending to extension in the finite domain.  To power pattern... an upwelling in the finite.
+
** The Supreme suggests both, via its Deity facets that are relevant to the finite domain:
*** The Mother is tending to intension in the finite domain.  To the personal purposive, a downwelling into the finite.
+
*** The Almighty is tending to extension.  To power pattern... an upwelling in the finite.
 +
*** The Mother is tending to intension.  To the personal purposive, a downwelling into the finite.
 
*** These are behind the reality of this experiential universe we live in.
 
*** These are behind the reality of this experiential universe we live in.
  
  
* [[To everything there is a dichotomy]].  Everything has two sides.  Always.
+
* How to properly entertain [[to everything there is a dichotomy|dichotomies]] as an aspiring philosopher.
 
** "It's all extension!"  "It's all intension!"  These are not balanced statement that can embody truth.
 
** "It's all extension!"  "It's all intension!"  These are not balanced statement that can embody truth.
** '''Balance.  Proportion must be respected'''.  The 7th of the [[adjust mind-spirits]] (the energy of symmetry, the philosophic impulse) urges you not lean too much to one side of this dichotomy or the other.
 
*** Responding to this urge is the beginning of human knowingness. 
 
*** Only humans can take this journey.  A dynamic interplaying mind that bats these ideas back and forth.
 
** But the 6th adjutant is almost the reciprocal urge--it urges you to absolutize the first thing you come across.  Aggressively.  Zealously.  "It's everything or nothing!"
 
 
*** Do you hear people these days saying "there aren't two sides!  If you're not on my side you are to be censored."
 
*** Do you hear people these days saying "there aren't two sides!  If you're not on my side you are to be censored."
 
*** Hence, the philosophic [[emergency]] we are in.
 
*** Hence, the philosophic [[emergency]] we are in.
** Racism has two sides.  Nazism has two sides.
+
** '''Balance.  Proportion must be respected'''.  Recognize that everything has two sides.  Always. 
*** Try saying that these days, people will infer you're advocating for Hitler.
+
*** The [[adjutant mind-spirits|7th adjutant mind-spirit]] (the energy of symmetry, the philosophic impulse) urges you not lean too much to one side of a dichotomy.
 +
*** Meanwhile, however, the 6th adjutant is almost the reciprocal:it urges one to absolutize the first thing you come across.  Aggressively.  Zealously.  "It's everything or nothing!"
 +
** To entertain both sides of something—'''think across a contrast'''—is to engage it with a philosophic mind.
 +
*** The beginning of a journey of human knowingness. 
 +
*** A dynamic '''interplaying''' mind that bats these ideas back and forth.
 +
*** Mind needs contrasts, tensions to play across.  The authors are trying to inspire our reflective thinking.
 +
*** But only a human can take this journey.  Are you ready to be human?
 +
** It's thorny territory.  Racism has two sides.  Nazism has two sides.
 +
*** Try saying that these days! People will infer you're advocating for Hitler.
 
*** But really entertaining both sides is the only way objective consciousness can be in play.
 
*** But really entertaining both sides is the only way objective consciousness can be in play.
** To entertain both sides of something—'''think across a contrast'''—is to engage it with a philosophic mind.
+
 
 +
 
 +
* Paper 115 presents contrast after contrast, dichotomies everywhere.
 +
** Flipping nouns and adjectives is a favorite of theirs (infinity or reality versus reality of infinity)
 +
** The authors are inviting us to play off these contrasts.
 
** If you figure out more about experiential Deity, you'll rethink existential Deity.  And vice versa.  The process repeats over and over.   
 
** If you figure out more about experiential Deity, you'll rethink existential Deity.  And vice versa.  The process repeats over and over.   
*** The interplay is all.
 
** There are many ways to play off the various contrasts presented in Paper 115.
 
  
  
* Don't think about personal beings when it comes to The Original, The Actual, and the Potential
+
* The Original, The Actual, and the Potential are ''philosophic concepts'', not beings.
** These are abstract philosophic concepts. Don't think about personality with them.
+
** Don't think about personality with them.
 
*** No, not even with The Actual.  The Actual encapsulates ALL of the Absolute of matter, mind, and spirit from the 3 sources and center.  All 3 sources and centers are encompassed by this one concept.
 
*** No, not even with The Actual.  The Actual encapsulates ALL of the Absolute of matter, mind, and spirit from the 3 sources and center.  All 3 sources and centers are encompassed by this one concept.
 +
*** No, the Original is not just The UniversalFather wearing some funny mask.  It's a philosophic concept.
 
** The "interassociation" (nonpersonal) among these 3 is what powers growth in the finite, supreme, and ultimate.
 
** The "interassociation" (nonpersonal) among these 3 is what powers growth in the finite, supreme, and ultimate.
 
*** The nonlinear tension between the original, actual, and potential.  Trying to discern The Almighty and The Mother
 
*** The nonlinear tension between the original, actual, and potential.  Trying to discern The Almighty and The Mother
 
** Strive to let go of literalness.  Think abstractly, but don't veer off into some lala land of non truth
 
** Strive to let go of literalness.  Think abstractly, but don't veer off into some lala land of non truth
** Our mind needs contrasts, tensions to play across.  The authors are trying to inspire our reflective thinking.
+
** The Original has a circuit-like quality, in which the Actual and the Potential can be thought of as being encircuited.
  
  
* The time viewpoint versus eternity viewpoint: contrasting concept frames
+
* Consider The Potential from 2 contrast viewpoints
** Multiple paragraph of suggesting how to play off contrasts.
+
** From the time viewpoint, the potentials are becoming actualities.  There are 3 reservoirs of potential (absolutes of mind, matter, and spirit).  
** Consider the Potential.
+
*** The ''en toto'' summation of all would be the upwelling of the Almighty.
*** From the time viewpoint, the potentials are becoming actualities.  There are 3 reservoirs of potential (absolutes of mind, matter, and spirit). The ''en toto'' summation of all would be the upwelling of the Almighty.
+
*** This summation someday will be the "body" of The Supreme Being.
*** From the eternity viewpoint there is only the Absolute.  It's not 3.  It's not a reservoir.  It's a facet of Deity.  The Absolute is, down in time, a deity potential of the Absolute.
+
** From the eternity viewpoint there is only the Absolute.   
*** This author reports the time viewpoint makes sense.  The eternity viewpoint lost him.
+
*** It's not 3.  It's not a reservoir.  It's a facet of Deity.
 +
** This author reports the time viewpoint makes sense.  The eternity viewpoint lost him.
 
*** That's OK.  Keep going down the road with this study.  You can come back to [115:3] later.
 
*** That's OK.  Keep going down the road with this study.  You can come back to [115:3] later.
** But don't only consider the upwelling of the Almighty.  You need dual motion: downwelling of The Mother.
+
** It's tempting to consider only the upwelling (time viewpoint). It's easier.
 +
*** Don't.  You need dual motion: downwelling of The Mother.
 
*** The word capacity in [115:3.12] is an early hint about the facet of Deity known as the Mother.
 
*** The word capacity in [115:3.12] is an early hint about the facet of Deity known as the Mother.
*** All of the summation of the actualities will someday be the "body" of The Supreme Being
 
  
  
* Summarizing outward: the Almighty.  Focalizing inward, the Mother.
+
* Summarizing outward: the Almighty.  Focalizing inward: the Mother.
 +
 
 +
 
 +
* All of this is very dynamic.  There is no such thing as an end, not really. 
 +
** "The unending highway of eternity" suggests experiential eternity,not existential eternity (a highway is an extensive concept)

Revision as of 18:11, 30 June 2020

June 16, 2020 [Paper 115:3.9-19, p. 1262]

In the association of the Deity, Universal, and Unqualified Absolutes, potentiality is absolute while actuality is emergent; in the association of the Second, Third, and Paradise Sources and Centers, actuality is absolute while potentiality is emergent; in the originality of the First Source and Center, we cannot say that either actuality or potentiality is either existent or emergent—the Father is.

Listen to the broadcast

Keywords: Urantia, The Potential, The Actual, The Original, The I AM


Summary by Kermit

Commentary after Review

The post-summary discussion revisited the previous week’s efforts to find and use contrasting perspectives to achieve greater understanding of a particular element of reality or facet of Deity. For example, the term cosmos finds expression in its extensive sense as harmonizing universe. The reciprocal intensive sense yields universal harmony. This philosophic duality (extension-intension) is not to be considered a dichotomy. The cosmos embodies a two-fold nature, “two sides of the same coin”, if you will. In 5th ER terms we find two facets of Deity under the umbrella of the Deity of the Supreme—The Almighty and The Mother. The natural biases we have for either individuality consciousness or unity consciousness make a balanced appreciation of both the extensive view and intensive view difficult. The discussion further explored the roles and potential interactions of the 7th adjutant as a philosophic impulse which inherently tends to balance divergent perspectives of a duality vs. the 6th adjutant which exerts its influence (as a religious impulse) in furtherance of one side or other of a duality. The philosophic emergency often mentioned here is illustrated by a diminution of this philosophic impulse and corresponding increase in zealous advocacy for a particular side of a duality. Correspondingly subjective viewpoints abound at the expense of genuine objective consciousness.

Commentary following a contentious caller highlighted a key difference between Biblical truths documenting the growth of ideals of God admixed with non-factual elements within the narrative, and the 5th ER with its purpose of revealing more factual and better ideas of God, while upholding the fundamental ideal of God and his infinite and eternal nature. Revising our ideas of God as presented in the revelation demands rethinking ideas of our origin, history, and destiny. Note that revising our ideas of God as the Universal Father is child’s play compared to our task in this arc of seeking correct understanding of experiential Deity.

Continuing with our task, the revelators provide a contrasting scheme postulating three phases of a basic conception of the absolute level—The Original, The Actual, and The Potential which we were introduced to the previous week and which we proceed to examine in our efforts to enhance understanding of The Almighty and The Mother in relation to the finite. Keep in mind that in this line of inquiry The Almighty is exclusively concerned with the finite, while in this context only The Mother’s engagement with the finite is being considered.


115:3.9 Original, Actual, and Potential (cont.)

We continue our consideration of the three phase postulate of but one basic conception of the absolute level—The Original, The Actual, The Potential. The Original is conceived as the I AM. The actual is considered the associations that are the triodity of actuality, and the potential is considered the associations that are the triodity of potentiality.

The revelators refer to tensions within infinity which are derived from the interassociation of the three aforementioned phases. All universe growth, a primary characteristic of experiential Deity is produced from these tensions. The very nature of the Sevenfold, the Supreme, and the Ultimate is growth.

In contemplating the interassociations of these phases we are advised to set aside consideration of personality. The Original is more helpfully considered apart from Father personality. In thinking about the Actual (triodity of actuality), consider

  • the Second Source as the Absolute of Spirit,
  • The Third Source as the Absolute of Mind, and
  • the Paradise Source as the Absolute of Matter.

It is not so difficult to divest the Potential (triodity of potentiality) of personality. The revelators are attempting to move us away from the more comfortable and familiar reality perspective nature of the seven Absolutes of Infinity (Father-based) towards a two-fold Deity contrast (The Almighty and The Mother) made functional and living across the vertical span of the finite (Sevenfold, Supreme, and Ultimate).

Our text provides various contrasting pairs or triplets of concepts to consider in associative and reciprocal fashion such as time-eternity, actual-potential, reality-deity, substance-capacity, extension-intension. For reflection and contemplation of these concepts to be profitable a non-linear approach is required. Such reflection is poorly captured in linear summarization. Spherical, circular, or reciprocal reasoning is a technique and skill which must be attempted, practiced and cultivated if we are to make headway in our efforts to understand experiential Deity. And as I frequently recommend, visit the archive for the details of the broadcast.


Notes by Brad

  • Being a serious student
    • The Urantia Book is not mandatory. It's not for everyone.
    • Have you reached the end of your rope with tradition and authority's answers to large philosophical questions?
    • Can you hold on firmly to your trust in God?
    • Can you think outside the concept frames people have used for 2000 years, and that you surely grew up in?
    • Can you distinguish between (a) challenging the belief in God, and (b) challenging outdated human ideas of God?
      • Can you read what it says about Jesus and see that he is raised, not lowered, in stature?
      • Can you read Papers 1-5 and accept they are not talking about existing ideas of God (only the same ideals)?
    • Can you understand that just because humans have said "God the Supreme" before, in no way does it mean The Urantia Book is talking about those traditional ideas?
    • Can you let no assumption go unchallenged?
    • Can you do better than resting on the laurels of "I've read the entire 2097 pages of this text?"
    • Are you curious? Can you let go?
      • Can you start from scratch with just one ideal: "the ideal of the infinite and eternal nature of God?"
      • Can you genuinely strive to get out of your old wineskins?
    • If so, perhaps The Urantia Book is for you. But it's not required if you're already satisfied.
      • If you believe the Bible is 100% factually correct, The Urantia Book is not for you (the Bible reveals truth, but it is not factually accurate)
    • To be a serious student of it, you must stay hungry and thirsty, my friends.
    • But beware. Launching out from the sheltered bays of doctrine, absolutist dogma, a priesthood... you can go astray.
      • Loosening of boundaries can get one into weird areas. Asking "questions that shouldn't be asked" can lead you astray.
      • Perhaps you'd rather just leave well enough alone?


  • Intensive versus extensive
    • Consider cosmos, which suggests both
      • Extensively it's a word denoting universe; intensively it's a word denoting harmony
      • Extensively it's the harmonizing universe. Intensively it's the universal harmony.
      • It isn't one or the other. The two are together as one. greeks figured this out over 2000 years ago.
    • The Supreme suggests both, via its Deity facets that are relevant to the finite domain:
      • The Almighty is tending to extension. To power pattern... an upwelling in the finite.
      • The Mother is tending to intension. To the personal purposive, a downwelling into the finite.
      • These are behind the reality of this experiential universe we live in.


  • How to properly entertain dichotomies as an aspiring philosopher.
    • "It's all extension!" "It's all intension!" These are not balanced statement that can embody truth.
      • Do you hear people these days saying "there aren't two sides! If you're not on my side you are to be censored."
      • Hence, the philosophic emergency we are in.
    • Balance. Proportion must be respected. Recognize that everything has two sides. Always.
      • The 7th adjutant mind-spirit (the energy of symmetry, the philosophic impulse) urges you not lean too much to one side of a dichotomy.
      • Meanwhile, however, the 6th adjutant is almost the reciprocal:it urges one to absolutize the first thing you come across. Aggressively. Zealously. "It's everything or nothing!"
    • To entertain both sides of something—think across a contrast—is to engage it with a philosophic mind.
      • The beginning of a journey of human knowingness.
      • A dynamic interplaying mind that bats these ideas back and forth.
      • Mind needs contrasts, tensions to play across. The authors are trying to inspire our reflective thinking.
      • But only a human can take this journey. Are you ready to be human?
    • It's thorny territory. Racism has two sides. Nazism has two sides.
      • Try saying that these days! People will infer you're advocating for Hitler.
      • But really entertaining both sides is the only way objective consciousness can be in play.


  • Paper 115 presents contrast after contrast, dichotomies everywhere.
    • Flipping nouns and adjectives is a favorite of theirs (infinity or reality versus reality of infinity)
    • The authors are inviting us to play off these contrasts.
    • If you figure out more about experiential Deity, you'll rethink existential Deity. And vice versa. The process repeats over and over.


  • The Original, The Actual, and the Potential are philosophic concepts, not beings.
    • Don't think about personality with them.
      • No, not even with The Actual. The Actual encapsulates ALL of the Absolute of matter, mind, and spirit from the 3 sources and center. All 3 sources and centers are encompassed by this one concept.
      • No, the Original is not just The UniversalFather wearing some funny mask. It's a philosophic concept.
    • The "interassociation" (nonpersonal) among these 3 is what powers growth in the finite, supreme, and ultimate.
      • The nonlinear tension between the original, actual, and potential. Trying to discern The Almighty and The Mother
    • Strive to let go of literalness. Think abstractly, but don't veer off into some lala land of non truth
    • The Original has a circuit-like quality, in which the Actual and the Potential can be thought of as being encircuited.


  • Consider The Potential from 2 contrast viewpoints
    • From the time viewpoint, the potentials are becoming actualities. There are 3 reservoirs of potential (absolutes of mind, matter, and spirit).
      • The en toto summation of all would be the upwelling of the Almighty.
      • This summation someday will be the "body" of The Supreme Being.
    • From the eternity viewpoint there is only the Absolute.
      • It's not 3. It's not a reservoir. It's a facet of Deity.
    • This author reports the time viewpoint makes sense. The eternity viewpoint lost him.
      • That's OK. Keep going down the road with this study. You can come back to [115:3] later.
    • It's tempting to consider only the upwelling (time viewpoint). It's easier.
      • Don't. You need dual motion: downwelling of The Mother.
      • The word capacity in [115:3.12] is an early hint about the facet of Deity known as the Mother.


  • Summarizing outward: the Almighty. Focalizing inward: the Mother.


  • All of this is very dynamic. There is no such thing as an end, not really.
    • "The unending highway of eternity" suggests experiential eternity,not existential eternity (a highway is an extensive concept)